Post by Anna on Apr 10, 2024 21:18:55 GMT -6
*Warning This topic includes so gruesome subtopics. If you have a weak stomach for gore, and child sacrifice this thread might not be for you.
Some people turn from God when reading in the Old Testament about how God ordered the Israelites to slaughter total civilizations, saying God is a blood-hungry God. They do this not considering that He might have had valid reasons for wanting to do so.
When reading through Numbers in the Old Testament a person might feel this way if they don't have any further context such as things that were taking place in the various civilizations at the time. Israel kept sinning against God even though they had seen his miracles many times from the plagues in Egypt, parting the Red Sea, providing them with food and water in the desert etc.
Every time things got tough, they whined about it instead of having faith. They returned to sin many times also. God through Moses gave them laws on how to handle these sins such as penalties like sacrificing livestock. He also gave them rules for ritually cleansing the temple. God is a Holy God. He cannot dwell amongst sin. The price for sin is death as warned in Genesis before Adam and Eve disobeyed and at the forbidden fruit. Without understanding that the wage of sin is death, one might think that God is bloodthirsty when reading about the bloodshed in the Old Testament.
When it comes to God ordering civilizations to be destroyed one must ask, "Why did God want to do that?" "What was going on in that civilization to make God want to wipe them out completely?" It had to be something so horrible that God wanted to take strong action against it.
What were the Canaanites doing that was so horrible that God found it so detestable?
A bible verse in Leviticus gives us a clue. NKJV Leviticus 18:21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
KJV says "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire"
AMP says "You shall not give any of your children to offer them [by fire as a sacrifice] to Molech [the god of the Ammonites], nor shall you profane the name of your God [by honoring idols as gods]. I am the Lord."
That is a little vague. Are there other verses like this one?
KJV Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Other versions and translations say the same thing.
Here is a long list of quotes about it. I would go into commentary on each because I want us to mainly stay focus on the topic of God ordering the Israelites to conquer the Canaanites. I am mainly establishing that there is child sacrifice in faires mentioned in the bible.
2 Kings 3:27
Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place, and offered him as a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land.
2 Kings 16:3
But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and even made his son pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had driven out from before the sons of Israel.
2 Chronicles 28:3
Moreover, he burned incense in the valley of Ben-hinnom and burned his sons in fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had driven out before the sons of Israel.
2 Kings 17:17
Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking Him.
2 Kings 21:6
He made his son pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord provoking Him to anger.
2 Chronicles 33:6
He made his sons pass through the fire in the valley of Ben-hinnom; and he practiced witchcraft, used divination, practiced sorcery and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking Him to anger.
2 Kings 23:10
He also defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire for Molech.
Isaiah 57:5
Who inflame yourselves among the oaks,
Under every luxuriant tree,
Who slaughter the children in the ravines,
Under the clefts of the crags?
Jeremiah 7:31
They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.
Deuteronomy 12:31
You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
Leviticus 20:2-5
“You shall also say to the sons of Israel:‘Any man from the sons of Israel or from the aliens sojourning in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech, shall surely be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones. I will also set My face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given some of his offspring to Molech, so as to defile My sanctuary and to profane My holy name. If the people of the land, however, should ever disregard that man when he gives any of his offspring to Molech, so as not to put him to death,read more.
Psalm 106:35-38
But they mingled with the nations
And learned their practices,
And served their idols,
Which became a snare to them.
They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons,
Source: bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Child-Sacrifice
Now that we have it established that the bible does mention child sacrifice in fires, is there any proof outside of the bible that the Canaanites were doing this?
*Note the words Canaanite and Amorites, is speaking of people in these regions, not an ethnic group. The people in the region of the fertile Crescent and along the Jordan river that weren't Israelites were pagan. They had turned from God. Many were descendants of the hybrids that caused God to create the great flood, Nephilim (giants).
I'm not going to get into theories on why there would still be Nephilim in existence after the flood, because that can get complicated, long, deserves a thread all on its own.
The book of numbers mentions that when Israelite scouts went across the river Jordan to see what they were up against, it freaked them out. They reported back that they were like grasshoppers in size compared.
Outside of the bible there is possible/probable archeological evidence for child ritual sacrifice via fire, decapitation, and a body cut in half in this region.
Excavated Canaanite High Place: "the sin of the Amorites"
I'm including this because I found it interesting. It is a "Mock Child Sacrifice to Moloch (1933 Chicago World's Fair)"
There is more context for it in the description under the video on Youtube.
To me it shows that knowledge of this happening is not a new thing.
Book of Numbers Summary: A Complete Animated Overview
Why did God command the OT killing of women and children?
Why Did God Command Vengeance on the Midianites? | Interview with Mike Winger
The Two Most Dangerous Giants In The Bible.
This is what information that I have so far.
Feel free to add to the thread and even correct me if you see that I am in error in any of this.
Some people turn from God when reading in the Old Testament about how God ordered the Israelites to slaughter total civilizations, saying God is a blood-hungry God. They do this not considering that He might have had valid reasons for wanting to do so.
When reading through Numbers in the Old Testament a person might feel this way if they don't have any further context such as things that were taking place in the various civilizations at the time. Israel kept sinning against God even though they had seen his miracles many times from the plagues in Egypt, parting the Red Sea, providing them with food and water in the desert etc.
Every time things got tough, they whined about it instead of having faith. They returned to sin many times also. God through Moses gave them laws on how to handle these sins such as penalties like sacrificing livestock. He also gave them rules for ritually cleansing the temple. God is a Holy God. He cannot dwell amongst sin. The price for sin is death as warned in Genesis before Adam and Eve disobeyed and at the forbidden fruit. Without understanding that the wage of sin is death, one might think that God is bloodthirsty when reading about the bloodshed in the Old Testament.
When it comes to God ordering civilizations to be destroyed one must ask, "Why did God want to do that?" "What was going on in that civilization to make God want to wipe them out completely?" It had to be something so horrible that God wanted to take strong action against it.
What were the Canaanites doing that was so horrible that God found it so detestable?
A bible verse in Leviticus gives us a clue. NKJV Leviticus 18:21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord.
KJV says "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire"
AMP says "You shall not give any of your children to offer them [by fire as a sacrifice] to Molech [the god of the Ammonites], nor shall you profane the name of your God [by honoring idols as gods]. I am the Lord."
That is a little vague. Are there other verses like this one?
KJV Deuteronomy 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Other versions and translations say the same thing.
Here is a long list of quotes about it. I would go into commentary on each because I want us to mainly stay focus on the topic of God ordering the Israelites to conquer the Canaanites. I am mainly establishing that there is child sacrifice in faires mentioned in the bible.
2 Kings 3:27
Then he took his oldest son who was to reign in his place, and offered him as a burnt offering on the wall. And there came great wrath against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land.
2 Kings 16:3
But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and even made his son pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had driven out from before the sons of Israel.
2 Chronicles 28:3
Moreover, he burned incense in the valley of Ben-hinnom and burned his sons in fire, according to the abominations of the nations whom the Lord had driven out before the sons of Israel.
2 Kings 17:17
Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking Him.
2 Kings 21:6
He made his son pass through the fire, practiced witchcraft and used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord provoking Him to anger.
2 Chronicles 33:6
He made his sons pass through the fire in the valley of Ben-hinnom; and he practiced witchcraft, used divination, practiced sorcery and dealt with mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking Him to anger.
2 Kings 23:10
He also defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter pass through the fire for Molech.
Isaiah 57:5
Who inflame yourselves among the oaks,
Under every luxuriant tree,
Who slaughter the children in the ravines,
Under the clefts of the crags?
Jeremiah 7:31
They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.
Deuteronomy 12:31
You shall not behave thus toward the Lord your God, for every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods; for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods.
Leviticus 20:2-5
“You shall also say to the sons of Israel:‘Any man from the sons of Israel or from the aliens sojourning in Israel who gives any of his offspring to Molech, shall surely be put to death; the people of the land shall stone him with stones. I will also set My face against that man and will cut him off from among his people, because he has given some of his offspring to Molech, so as to defile My sanctuary and to profane My holy name. If the people of the land, however, should ever disregard that man when he gives any of his offspring to Molech, so as not to put him to death,read more.
Psalm 106:35-38
But they mingled with the nations
And learned their practices,
And served their idols,
Which became a snare to them.
They even sacrificed their sons and their daughters to the demons,
Source: bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Child-Sacrifice
Now that we have it established that the bible does mention child sacrifice in fires, is there any proof outside of the bible that the Canaanites were doing this?
*Note the words Canaanite and Amorites, is speaking of people in these regions, not an ethnic group. The people in the region of the fertile Crescent and along the Jordan river that weren't Israelites were pagan. They had turned from God. Many were descendants of the hybrids that caused God to create the great flood, Nephilim (giants).
I'm not going to get into theories on why there would still be Nephilim in existence after the flood, because that can get complicated, long, deserves a thread all on its own.
The book of numbers mentions that when Israelite scouts went across the river Jordan to see what they were up against, it freaked them out. They reported back that they were like grasshoppers in size compared.
Outside of the bible there is possible/probable archeological evidence for child ritual sacrifice via fire, decapitation, and a body cut in half in this region.
Excavated Canaanite High Place: "the sin of the Amorites"
I'm including this because I found it interesting. It is a "Mock Child Sacrifice to Moloch (1933 Chicago World's Fair)"
There is more context for it in the description under the video on Youtube.
To me it shows that knowledge of this happening is not a new thing.
Book of Numbers Summary: A Complete Animated Overview
Why did God command the OT killing of women and children?
Why Did God Command Vengeance on the Midianites? | Interview with Mike Winger
The Two Most Dangerous Giants In The Bible.
This is what information that I have so far.
Feel free to add to the thread and even correct me if you see that I am in error in any of this.